An honest question: Why 64Studio over Fedora for audio apps?

Hi, My new system is up and running and I am ready to go at it again. I was very excited to see that kbuild was in the repository but now wonder if there is a problem and if I should wait? Thanks, James

Hi, My new MB, AMD cpu, and RAM arrived today. I will build it up tomorrow and get started all over again. I will keep you posted. James

Hi James, Distrohopping: This is a good thread because of your initial query. My experience comes from using the various distros configuration settings and honing them for use in my installs. I've had a Debian installed since I first used GNU\Linux but the other distros methods and configuration files have been essential to keeping my Debian installs sweet. My first GNU\Linux install was SuSE 8.2 then I found aGNUla DeMuDi 0.9 and dual booted. I've had a Debian install since. Did you get Ardour 3 built yet? If not what's the error? xorg.conf: Find the current & available settings $ xrandr Find the modelines required for xorg.conf $ gtf 1280 1024 60 or $ gtf 1280 1024 75 GUI Monitor & Card settings $ sudo displayconfig-gtk Interesting Reads: X/Config/Resolution: Troubleshooting Intel graphics performance issues: DW Weekly, Issue 245, 24 March 2008: Old but good read: Interview with Chris Hildebrandt, the sidux project: Cheers! Dave.

Hi James, I have put a link at the end of this post for your kernel building queries. From the link see the post *Real-Time Linux.* it vs gb: Using the right download server is important but also the Jaunty release will see the ubuntu server getting hammered for a few days. xorg.conf: Understanding **X** is very important. X has improved a great deal over the last few years. It was quite well known for frying monitors in the past but it's much better today and has been refined a great deal. IMHO tweaking X is one of the most important requirements and these commands can save a lot of trolling through log files for errors. *grep* is a brilliant tool. Once you understand the basics it can save you hours of reading time and filter out the issues you want to read.e.g. Run: $ grep WW /var/log/Xorg.0.log $ grep EE /var/log/Xorg.0.log $ grep II /var/log/Xorg.0.log $ grep PCI /var/log/Xorg.0.log Good to see you had a distrohop to sidux:) Run the above commands on sidux to compare with the beta3 and save a copy of your sidux xorg.conf as well as the livecd versions. Kernel Testers Needed See Post: Real-Time Linux Cheers! Dave. *Update* Now you have a selection of BackUp xorg.conf here's another config tool to try. Found it while researching your monitor. Be careful: Try at 60hz resolution and keep backups as you go. $ sudo displayconfig-gtk It's worked with xorg.conf & monitor here.

Hi Dave and gang, I am getting a new system on Monday so will start up again then. On a lark, I installed Sidux on a HD and it worked great! I am now building Ardour 3.0 beta as I type. The question is again going to be a rt-kernel. So, where might I look to learn how to build a rt-kernel? Thanks again, James

Hi James, The chances are if you manage to get the nVidia driver up and running today. Everything will change tomorrow or in the near future and your going to be right back where you started. The beta really is dramatically changing, packages, kernel, & base systems all are being synced and honed. The nvidia driver sits on top of this environment. To do it in reverse will fail. Use these sources: change "it" to "gb" for English server: $ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-cache search 2.6.29 To find what kernel packages are installed run: $ dpkg -l |grep 2.6.29 To find the policy run: e.g. $ sudo apt-cache policy linux-kbuild-2.6.29 $ sudo apt-cache policy linux-headers-2.6.29-1-all The last two will tell you what's installed & what's available. Check the policy of what: $ dpkg -l |grep 2.6.29 (returns on your kernel) Take your time, you're doing well. What you're learning here applies to all Debian systems. In fact it applies to all GNU\Linux systems with slight variations. Ubuntu, Mepis, Knoppix, Sidux etc are all based on Debian so these commands are all very important. To have the system e.g. xorg running sweet before the binary is installed is the key otherwise you're going to have to install the driver over and over again. Refer post: *package management apt dpkg synaptic* Here: Cheers! Dave. Hi tb, just seen your post! back soon...

Hi James, linux-kbuild-2.6.29 was in the repositories the last time I looked! you don't need to build it now. All the kernel packages are in flux at this time, so waiting is a wise move. I've had a quick browse at your monitor specs and I think the refresh rate settings is the key factor. The new ubuntu doesn't have an xorg.conf at all so understanding how it functions is a basic requirement for linux users. The time spent here will pay off big style for you in the future. Booting livecd's is another great way to collect xorg.conf and other configuration files for your system. Mepis, knoppix, sidux etc., will all configure differently so collecting livecd configuration files on a usb stick is time well spent. Cheers! Dave.

Hi James, I will look into the monitor specs. This is just a quick reply. Don't try the kernel fix unless the kernel upgrade fails!. I have tried many variations on the kernel fix and it works best after the upgrade fails. I didn't upgrade the kernel on this install yet, I apt-get installed everything else but left out the kernel-image and kernel-rt to see what develops over the next few days. I would recommend you spend time getting the best xorg.conf hybrid possible before trying anything else. Then back it up for the future. The ubuntu repositories are hanging because of the Jaunty release event... The servers will be like this for a day or two... It's the same here... Sidux is a fine distro and well worth a look if you have a spare partition. Very nice desktop, but I've still changed it and installed kde 4.2. Cheers! Dave.

Hi, I have a Sceptre x24 WG-1080-p. It is a nice 24" wide screen monitor. It seemed like I kept getting hung on one of the archive.ubuntu repositories. Everytime I would try to update it would hang there and then I was not able to load the headers for the kbuild-kernel. I will try the trick above and see how it works. And, I took a look at the sidux site too. It looks interesting if for no other reason that it is on the edge always. Thanks, this is tremedously helpful. I am upgrading my system to a quad-core AMD with a GeForce 8200 on it. But, I will be transferring this box over to my kids and will continue with Linux on it too. Thanks, James

Hi James, Googled: Geforce 6150 xorg.conf ubuntu There seems to be quite a few people having issues with the card. What type of Monitor do you have? the model number will help so we can find the right resolution settings. Post back your present xorg.conf. Did your upgrade work ok? Here's the sources list to use. Uncomment the security ones once you've finished the initial upgrade. You don't need the PDK one that's just a reference for me. Dave sources.list beta3 If you selected all to upgrade and hit the kernel upgrade issue, here's the fix. $ sudo cp /etc/kernel-img.conf /etc/kernel-img.conf-backup $ sudo cp the contents of the above link to /etc/kernel-img.conf $ sudo apt-get upgrade (should complete the kernel install) $ sudo update-grub Once done I've replaced my original kernel-img.conf using the backup. *Update* Here's another xorg variation to try, I've tweaked the modules section. We need to configure the refresh rates to suit your monitor. Dave xorg modes modules Cheers! Dave.

Hi, No luck with the hybrid nor with it edited down to simplicity. I think I will try the binary approach now since I have nothing to lose. James

Hi, I tried the hybrid xorg.conf file you posted and got a black screen on boot up. Since I was not sure where I was with respect to repositories. I simply reinstalled fresh again and then checked all upgrades without changing any repositories from the install. It looks like the above are loading now. So, that said, should I just try the hybrid above again after I save my original xorg.conf file? Thanks, James

Things are moving along fast with 64studio 3.0beta3 software. Since a few posts back in this thread these have all been upgraded:) $ dpkg -l |grep jackd ii jackd 1.9.2-0.64studio2~hardy1 $ dpkg -l |grep sndfile ii libsndfile1 1.0.19-2~hardy1 ii sndfile-programs 1.0.19-2~hardy1 $ dpkg -l |grep ardour ii ardour 1:2.8-1~hardy1 Distrohopped to sidux on a spare partition today and built PDK on Sid. Trying to create a minimal cd image, sort of netinstall 64studio. Cheers! Dave.

Hi James, I've put this hybrid xorg.conf together as a test-example. It's working here but you may have to tweak it a bit for your system. Click on *Download as text* and save the contents to a file. BackUp your original before you start editing in case you need to revert to the original. You shouldn't need all these modelines but you can always tweak it as you go. If you do install the binary driver later just uncomment # glx and change "nv" to "nvidia". Dave xorg "nv" + modes We may need to do a bit more tweaking yet. Good luck:) Cheers! Dave.

If you post back here a paste.ubuntu link of your xorg.conf we may be able to create a hybrid xorg.conf to suit your card\monitor. *Your system does not contain.....* This is three times I've seen this error on the forum, I've never had this error here but I always use apt-get to upgrade my system. One of the first tasks after installing is to go to Preferences sessions an stop this app from starting up. Then go to synaptic preferences and disable *Check for updates Daily.* Processes running in the background are bad news on a DAW. Much better to check yourself. I don't mind using Synaptic but prefer apt-get. The GUI software upgrade apps are just another layer on top of apt-get, so I maybe wrong but it's just one more possible problem I don't need. Things may have changed, but I still feel it's better not to have say, X or your desktop running when X or the desktop is being upgraded. I'm a console junkie and apt dpkg are formidable tools, I don't see the need to complicate something that works fine. If you must use a GUI to upgrade, Synaptic is the one. In my distrohopping I've yet to find a package management system that can compete with Debians. Good to see you got Ardour sorted I use these basic repos on beta3 \# deb cdrom:[64studio 3.0-beta3 (1)]/ hardy main \# hardy deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main restricted universe multiverse deb http://it.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-updates main restricted universe multiverse deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy main restricted universe multiverse deb-src http://it.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-updates main restricted universe multiverse \# 64studio deb http://apt.64studio.com/backports hardy-backports main deb-src http://apt.64studio.com/backports hardy-backports main \# Security hardy \#deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security main restricted \#deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security main restricted \#deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security universe \#deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security universe \#deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security multiverse \#deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ hardy-security multiverse You'll need the *deb-src http://* entries to run e.g. $ sudo apt-get build-dep ardour Now that Ardour is in the repos you don't need to use build-dep but it I still do here. You don't need the deb-src entries for the security repos but it wont hurt to have them. The security repos are disabled in this example, you need to uncomment them for use. Cheers! Dave.

Yes, it is in the repositories, but not the ubuntu ones... This is been backported in the 64 Studio repositories. Enjoy, Quentin

"For some reason, I am unable to smoothly use the process for Ardour described by the forum here. Ardour 2.8 continues to not find Jack even though I know it is there (I can open it, etc.). I believe I am messing up on when I use the added repositories and then invoking apt-get update". It is very important not to mix up repositories. Right now, with the official 64studio 3.0 beta repositories : deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy restricted universe multiverse main deb http://it.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu hardy-updates restricted universe multiverse main deb http://apt.64studio.com/backports hardy-backports main You can build ardour2 from source (I have not tried ardour 3.0 though). When you are compiling from source and scons or make says "foo is missing" search for "foo-dev" or "libfoo-dev" and install it. BUT GOOD NEWS: ardour 2.8 and jack 1.9 are in the ubuntu repository now! EDIT: Oh yes, they are in the 64studio repository (hardy-backports). Sorry. Pablo

I've been a distrohopper for a long time as well. I use several different distros on a regular basis. I am a network and security geek, but for music, I just want it to work. Your recent posts notwithstanding, 64studio is the easiest way to get a good selection of apps and a real-time kernel, that are well-maintained. I have other machines where I upgrade the kernel a couple of times a week, I tweak incessantly, and some of them crash and burn, to be replaced by "the last working image". My 64studio box is that place for me to get away from all of that. I started out on CCRMA as well, they were very helpful when I was new to audio on Linux. Distro-wise, I have come to prefer Debian's methods over RH/Fedora, and I started out on Red Hat. Once RedHat went corporate, Fedora became a pretty fast-moving target to follow. On a selfish note, I am limited to dialup at home, and Fedora doesn't (usually) have long-term support as far as upgrades. A fresh install is usually painfully slow for me to get up to speed. I used RH/Fedora for years at home, as my main web/email use in a terminal server. Empty Pentium I boxes around the house can all use the central server. I have since switched the terminal server all to CentOS, a whitebox clone of RedHat Enterprise, with upgrades for seven years. Hang in there, keep poking at them all. Whatever works for you is the right one.

James wrote: I like the way 64Studio works better but have had my challenges in getting it set up. Hi James, Could you remind me of the issues you had setting up the beta3? The beta3 should be your first choice, the only real issue is if you are desperate to use binary drivers. If this is not important then the beta3 kernel is the one to use. Stick with Ardour 2.8 (the latest release) the configure is straightforward and Quentins howto sees the install run without problems. My second choice of kernel would be our 2.6.26. I use this kernel on my 2.1 lenny install and have nvidia binary drivers installed, it works fine and gives me no problems at all but I'd need to look into this kernel & packages availability because I've had it installed for some time. I'll wait on your response before going into more detail. Cheers Dave. Update: There's packages upgrading today, including: $ dpkg -l |grep jack ii dssi-host-jack 0.9.1-2build1 ii jack-rack 1.4.7-0ubuntu1 ii jackd 1.9.2-0.64studio2~hardy1 ii jackeq 0.4.1-1ubuntu2 ii libjack0 1.9.2-0.64studio2~hardy1 ii libjack0.100.0-0 1.9.2-0.64studio2~hardy1 ii libjackserver-bin 1.9.2-0.64studio2~hardy1 ii libjackserver0 1.9.2-0.64studio2~hardy1 ii qjackctl 0.3.4-1~hardy1

Hi, Thanks Dave. So, if I have older hardware (AMD dual-core at 3800, Echo Mona, M-Audio 1010lt) shouldn't I just run on the older rt-kernel? If so, how do I do that? However, I do want to ensure I get to Ardour 3.0 at some point and latest Jackd. I presume that it is all intertwined? If not, I have no need to have the fastest, latest, coolest app/distribution just one that I can rely on. I wonder if I am making sense? James

Hi James, There are first class topics raised in this thread and your last statement is a gem. 64studio gives us a top class distro with debians apt packaging system and goodies, all pre-configured and ready to use. Using other top class GNU\Linux desktops is vital to understanding why and how 64studio achieves the excellence it has. Removing the bloat and services we don't need in fedora or another desktop gives you the knowledge and skills required to fine tune your system. The methods and make up might be slightly different between various distros but the essence and core of GNU\Linux is basically similar. Services and daemons are a good example, by removing the not needed services in fedora you'll get to feel the system improve. The method of removing the bloat might change but the principle is exactly the same and the services\daemons are universal. The time taken to explore other distros only adds to the understanding of the debian way. Comparison is a great way to further knowledge. The 64studio team has, and still is, working constantly to achieve the ultimate audio workstation. Moving over to a hardy base sees many challenges. Without the user community's patience and feedback the task becomes mammoth if not impossible. Some users jump ship when challenges arise, but they don't really see the bigger picture, the next distro also has issues and they jump ship again, there is no satisfaction in this behaviour, it's not the way. Trying other distros gives valuable experience. Bringing back knowledge to your community is vital to future development. No doubt once 64studio 3.0 is out of the door I'll be having a little distrohop to checkout what's going on with the rest of the linux world, but at this point in time I need all my partitions to test the various developments of 64studio. Enjoying the journey is the key, if it all becomes a chore and hard work you're doing something wrong, and again this is where being part of a community is important because we all keep each other on track. Update: More information gained from this thread and your distrohop. The kernel-rt has been through a difficult period recently. Our 2.6.21 kernel (64studio 2.1) proved to be a fine kernel and only shows problems now because of newer hardware issues. UbuntuStudio is on with trying to get a reliable kernel for it's release and now your journey into fedora throws even more light on to kernel issues. So we're all in the same boat when it comes to -rt kernel development. This is a perfect example of patience, perseverance and dependence on community feedback. It's the kernel we have to look to regardless of the distro. It's well known that the 2.6.26 was the last kernel that patched well with -rt. We had a real breakthrough with 2.6.29-2 (beta3 default kernel) but we've had issues with kernel upgrading for a while now (known bug). The 64studio 3.0 alpha kernel failed to upgrade properly, and the beta3 is similar. Most of my computer time today is concerned with the 64studio kernel, I think it's top of the ToDo list. My first port of call from the desktop is this forum, my second computer is sorting mail from the user\devel lists and I make notes regarding posts from both. Users that actively contribute to the forum have a much better chance of finding their hardware supported in the final release, but alas only so much can be done at each stage. The users who don't post reports shouldn't be too suprised when they have issues in the future, we can't look at an issue if we're not aware of it. Fortunately we have a good community and people who are willing to take the time to test and more importantly report their findings. This will insure that 64studio 3.0 will be a stable high performance release. The effort and time invested will be well spent and will without doubt be mirrored throughout GNU\Linux in general. All because of community commitment. As you say some forums are full of ego, and the moderators can be hard and impatient. Quentin runs a good forum here, not all forums are as friendly and helpful as this one. Cheers Dave.

Hi, I tried using Fedora based on the comment from Paul on the Ardour page. I installed Fedora and then went to Planet CCRMA to use their apps. I had pretty good success getting things loaded, including Ardour 2.8 and Jack 1.9.2, and Rosegarden. But, there was no rt-kernel installed. Unfortunately, their rt kernels upon install often have md5sum errors, at least according to my system. Fernando, the administrator there has been very helpful but cannot find errors on their system repositories. I even tried downloading them on a separate computer but still get errors on install. Maybe I am not upgrading the kernel correctly. I do not know. So, I guess I will come back here and wait for the release. I am making progress in my knowledge at least. Thanks, James

Hey James. I may be a bit late to the conversation at this point, but I'd like to add my 2cents on this. I recently toyed around with FC10 on a seperate partition while 64Studio 2.1 lived on the other partition. I tried setting up FC10 to be a DAW mostly to compare what the environment differences were between the 2 (if any) and walked away realizing that 64Studio is a safe, sure fire way to have a low latency environment ready to roll right off of the install. FC10, while it's a solid mainstream distro imho, is not really geared up towards what audio freaks like us want to do. I like how 64Studio already had the foresight to limit the amount of startup services, the little tweaks to the kernel and overall environment elements that are about nurturing creativity. 3.0 is definitely continuing in that vein, and I'm very grateful for that. So to answer your question, this distro is all about the musician and their creativity while FC10 (and similar distros) are all about giving you a standard desktop experience without the focus.

I always believe that you set the tone of a forum very early on. Daniel, Free and Tim made sure that the site appeared very community centric, and even after changing it to make it look more businesslike is is still friendly. When 3.0 is released I believe that CCRMA and 64 Studio will be wisest choices for audio professionals, and this is proven by the guys at Harrison using 64 Studio as the development base. Cheers, Q

Hi James, Confirmed distrohopper here:) Only time stops me having a bigger multi-boot set up. Fedora\ccrma is a fine example of linux and I are check it out regularly. Here is an old menu-list of a multi-boot environment, it's outdated but should give you something to work from, depending on your setup. I still do have multi boot but not so many now. old menu.list example I've separated the main boot entries from the recovery boots with the win32 entry and an info entry lines 21-26.e.g. title vfat,hda7,40gp4. swap,hda8 root Put any info you want on the title line, here I was reminding myself of the vfat & swap partitions. Always backup the original file before making any changes. Cheers! Dave.

The only difference is choice. Take cars for instance. On principle there is not much of a difference between the cars on the road today. You have only to choose which you feel comfortable with, and which you can afford. I would not choose a car that has no air con, power steering or ABS braking, because that is what I need. I chose 64 Studio because the developers were easy to reach, and 64 Studio was the first to run on my (then brand new) system, without problems, and it was a breese to set up, and it still is today. Additionally I am used to the Debian way now, and would be a bit lost on another system for a while. No insult taken. Use Fedora for a while, and check back when 3.0 is released. By all means, escape windoze as soon as you can!