monitors and headphones. advise needed.

  • cmay
Posted: Fri, 01/08/2010 - 22:42
I am looking for cheap studio monitors and some good headphones for mixing. I need to ask advise for good headphones that you can do a mixing with if you have to work at night so I dont disturb the nabours or if I record something in the studio at the school where I need my own speakers and headphones because they really are worthless the ones they have now. its the schools rehearsal room and there is analog 8 track studio set up for recording. I also need some cheap studio monitors but they have to be good enough to last some time before upgrading. I never could afford good speakers before so they have to be cheap. what good ones are there in the lower pricerange. what headphones can allow for sparing a couple of decent studio monitors until I can afford those. In Denmark where I live things like guitars ,instruments and audiophile equipment is very expensive. I cant afford all the things at once. should I consider using good headphones or just get the studio monitors for mixing. I know that headphones are really not suitable for mixing but I work on my music late hours some of the time. rahter not disturb the surroundings to much :)

updated gear list a bit. I

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Sat, 07/17/2010 - 20:15
updated gear list a bit. I found a couple of old ns10 too. should be ok to use these three sets of speakers for production and mixing . the first ones I got was suitable for recording. these img stagelines . they where just not so precise to be useful all the way but the set of yamaha ns10 and hs50 I do find pretty good for doing mixing on. I been slow on during any recording for some time but need to do a blues demo project anytime soon. think I will do it on my laptop with 64studio because I still find it confusing to use logic and the install on my PC with 64studio and the maudio delta 44 is sort of maybe being sold anytime soon. wants a new mixer and its going to be hard to save up the money at the time. I still use the laptop most of the time anyway. have some unfinished ardour projects on the PC I will save to usb disc and work on my laptop . I thought I would let you know I ended the quest for monitors with some succes. I dont plan on investing in amymore monitors now. think I would like to maybe see if I could start a littel hobby singer song writer studio up that others maybe could find useful too. not that I would start charging money yet or ever at all. just to get to work with others and learn as much as possible. only way to do this is to work with others too. experience is a pretty good thing to gain and I dont plan to live as proffesional anyway.

Great information

  • karen61
  • 07/02/10
  • Tue, 07/13/2010 - 19:20
Keep up the great work!

Monitor

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Wed, 06/16/2010 - 21:56
Make sure you have your angles right to maximize your stereo imaging. Also, don't forget that you will have to play it quite loud to make it work right. Calibrate the levels to around 80 to 83dB SPL using the wav in the mastering page. Additionally you will have to do quite a bit of intense listening on the new speakers, to train your ears. Those Yammies are very revealing, and after you get used to them there is no telling how much your mixing might improve ;-) That said, using 'phones to check stuff is quite ok. I often use it when I have lots of work to do, especially cutting for disturbances and fitting performances, where the sonic mix is not crucial yet. Cheers, Q

I just got the yamaha hs50m

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Tue, 06/15/2010 - 12:21
I just got the yamaha hs50m ... the guy that sold me them let me listen to the old ns10 for comparison. I cant relate to these two speakers being compared but i am happy with them . along with the others and my four ordinary hifi and lofi speakers in the cheap end and two different sets of headphones I can use them just fine as they are more detailed. they are pretty good for the price I have to say. mine was even cheaper as they where second hand. I got some basstraps and carpets on the wall and going to record myy songs now. before its too late. being pensioneer with lots of disease and I do have pain in the fingeres now so its time to record all things proper before its too late. sometimes I cant even walk out to the toilet in the morning before I get my painkillers so reckon there is a limited time left to play guitar. I got the m audio delta 44 on studio 64 beta and got a cheap old power mac with logic. and a rme hdsp card in that one along with my old fostex fd8 harddisk recorder so I can record and use sounds and effects from two different systems and a few rackmounted hardware effekts too. with my instruments that is guitars ,bass and some nice drums and rattles from native americans and from africa and greenland I shoud be able to make something that is going to work out alright. can record drums in a small studio nearby. things are starting to fall into place and I treated the room a bit. I will treat it even more later when more money comes in on my account. room treatment are perhaps more vital when using low cost cheaper monitors than if you have genelecs are somthign like that. no matter what I still use headphones a lot. both during recording but to check for details that are more easy to spot on headphones. you cant mix solely on headphones I reckon. somethign about phase cancelation that should be harder to hear ?

Neutral listening space?

  • porisija
  • 09/29/07
  • Tue, 05/25/2010 - 17:28
I wonder .. when comparing monitors it's perhaps a good idea to look around in the listening space - as to what kind of materials are being used in the room. A concrete wall with wallpaper (and nothing else) will be a lot different from ..say .. a wood paneled room. An old trick is to attach egg cartridges on the wall to suppress unwanted reflections. What kind of rooms do you have? My "home studio" is a cast concrete all round basement with wood paneling - it seems to produce a "short" sound - no extra tunnel echo. Quentin is right; whatever works for U is the correct choice. And good equipment lets you hear the final mix with amazing detail .. so the potential listener can rip it to 64 kbit MP3 and stuff his/her ears with el-cheapo button headphones.. riiight.. I can remember how a friend of mine was waxing about his iPod buttons "designed by HarmanKardon" - so I took a listen. How were they? Frankly - rubbish.

got them

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Fri, 02/05/2010 - 22:31
I got them. they are pretty good for the price. I never had any active speakers before other than the standard type for laptops. I must say slide guitar sounds natural on them . the bass dont muddle up at high extremes and over all they seem fine. had better sound off a couple of high end headphones once. but these are neutral in comparison. I know these are not sutiable for real serious mixing work but they are perfect for use alon with the hard disc recorder or computer in recording situations. I will use them as long as it takes me to get ahold on some adams or something like that. could take years though.

thanks.

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Thu, 02/04/2010 - 16:38
Thanks. quentin. this message made me happy. I dont know the brand but it should be very good for low cost . deals with diso and dj equipment for the most part. I will be using these until I get some better monitors and then use them for a media center with the delta audiophile card . this I think woul dbe a great alternative to a standard hifi system. at lower cost. but then again I can use it for mixing things or recording if I need two computers running. maybe even use them for the laptop so its a good deal I got on them and they should be home already. I go pick them up tommorow.

Go for it

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Thu, 02/04/2010 - 05:55
The spec of these looks good. My advice would be to leave the HF dial on 0dB and train your ears to the monitors. I am thinking of getting a set of monitors for the sole purpose of playing music in my home as well. As they say, when you are used to cake, bread is rather stale...

downer

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Thu, 02/04/2010 - 02:20
I could not get these esi or even the beringer truths. the store I have to use is simply not able to get any of the ones I wanted but I got a fair deal on these speakers here. http://monacor.dk/produkter/proflyd-hoejttalereaktiv/vnr/250680/ can anyone tell me if they will do for studio monitors to begin with. ? They are going to be put in a larger system using a delta audiophile 2496 card later on and used for solely listing to music and wathcing movies once I can afford and can get a couple of really good studio monitors.

Power

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Mon, 01/11/2010 - 04:56
These monitors are loud enough. They are active, and has internal protection built in, but I have run them uncomfortably loud once or twice to check balance. I have even used one of them once (in an emergency) when the electronic stage piano at a concert did not have enough volume for the large venue. After opening up the monitor it sounded like we carted in a grand piano. I mix all kinds of music, and these monitors translates well. I don't think you will be disappointed. I considered the Truth's as well, having a DDX3216 digital mixer, but the ESI's performed better than the Behr's as well.

I orderd them now.

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Mon, 01/11/2010 - 17:36
I just placed an order for them now. I am exited to get those monitors but I think it will take some days to get them home. maybe even until the end of this month. I am gratefull for the adwise. thanks.

thanks.

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Sun, 01/10/2010 - 21:51
I think your pretty right on all counts there. I just been searching on catalogs before I buy and comparing prices. so the m-audio did cross my mind more than once but the ones you recommend I never heard any of before. I am glad that you recommend those because they are the largest speakers my budget will allow. I never heard from anyone using them before what they think of them but severel people had been telling me that a couple of behringer truth would be worth the extra fivehundred over budget. I record using a SE. electronics 3900 and a m-art tube amp and most of my songs are written for acoustic guitars and I use the drums from off hydrogen if needed. I recently got a gibson electric guitar and I was wondering if you can play some of the more nasty sounds like too loud drums or unmixed guitars on these speakes you reccomend without out damage to the speakers. this is what happen to my last real good PA speakers. they where not used as mixing tool but I did manage to use them a couple of years before feeling I was needing a couple of decent monitors.

Taste

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Sun, 01/10/2010 - 18:47
I did not like the sound of the m-audio monitors, but that is a matter of personal taste. Don't get monitors for the brandname of it. You need to get ones that works with you. Also note that the AV20 and AV30's are not monitors, but desktop speakers. They are not designed for flat response and would not be revealing enough. You don't want your monitors to make your mixes sound nice when it is actually not. Check for web comparisons, but I would not trade my ESI's for the m-audios. Next up for me would be the larger ESI's, and the Adams, and then there are quite a number of high end (and very very expensive monitors I would love, but will never be able to afford now. Maybe at a later stage...

great

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Sun, 01/10/2010 - 17:10
Thanks. they look good and I been thinking about getting them. I do have a subwoofer and right now because I am limited to using some cheap speakers I use a couple of those here http://www.disconetto.dk/shop/2-vej-rund-4-18945p.html they are good enough for listing to recording sessions but I doubt you can make a mixdown that will sound good on high end speakers. I have been thinking about the small m-audio speakers. the studiophileAV20 or AV30 because they are cheap enough that I am sure I can afford them. however they are small and being active they will save mne the cost of a new amplifier. How does these compare to the esiNear speakers. I imagien that youd pay some of the price for the brand of m-audio. I cant listen to the speakers first because I have to order them at my favorite shop. he sells and makes violins but can also get mixers and speakers on demand. just dont get them home unless he is sure that they will be sold.

nEar 05

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Sun, 01/10/2010 - 16:48
Those are the exact ones. They also have quite good reviews on the web and magazines. They are by no means real professional studio monitors, lacking a bit of low end, but I manage to mix and master using them with very good results. In the end is is not only about the tools, but how you use them that counts. I have had good service from these, and I will get a set of nEar 08's soon to complement these in my new mixing room. In order to master I custom built a special low end 6th order woofer box, tuned to provide the exact frequencies missing from the nEar 05's By itself it sounds like a soft faraway rumble but after re analysing my monitor response curves, it has an extended low response down to 30Hz, in steed of rolling off at 70Hz (-6dB) Low frequencies are not directional, and while working it does not sound like any sound comes from this special driver at all. Note that is is not cheap to build, as the box uses 2 x 12inch drivers, and has a volume of more than 400 liter...

thanks

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Sun, 01/10/2010 - 13:27
@quentin I have looked at these http://www.aage.dk/shop/studiehoejttalere/esi/near-05-experience.html now they are the exact same as the ones you suggest ? if they are its properly the ones I will get because I can afford them. I did not check out otehrs than m-audio small monitors because I hoped to get a pair of JBL speakers cheaper and use the amplifier I have to power them up. However if these small ones you mention is good for mixing then I actually think they are cheaper than new JBL studio monitors here.

Monitors

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Sun, 01/10/2010 - 07:09
I have a small set of ESI nEar 05 (experience) monitors that falls within you budget. When I bought them I had the opportunity to go to the Thomann store in Treppendorf, Germany. They have a huge monitor demo room, where they have all the monitors available set up, selectable by button press. I did like those Adams, but they were just outside my budget at the time. Surprisingly, the other set of monitors I liked, was not expensive at all, and fit my budget to a tee, and they are ultra portable. ;-) Monitors are very personal, and I would recommend you listen to some before buying. I initially wanted to get the Yammaha 50's but in the end they were too harsh on my ears, where the nEars are just very revealing. I used to use some high end PA speakers before this (JBL) but after getting the monitors I heard stuff in the music that I never heard before. A whole new world opens to you, and you can hear the difference between sound cards, MP3 and CD, hidden details in music and lots of magic you always missed... After your monitors shopping: Next project - Room treatment (Good luck...) Cheers, Quentin

thanks.

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Sat, 01/09/2010 - 22:06
Thanks for the message. great to see a other dane here :) I cant afford more than max 3500 kr. But the headphones sounds reasonable. I was looking on the cheap of the high-end DENON line- they are great But I am not sure ou can actually do a mixdown on something like headphones. By now I managed to stack up some hard disk recorders and some good sounding instruments and a se electronics 3900 condeser mic. just got a small mixer too. I would be happy to get some cheap JBL d50 somewhere or something like that for studio monitors. There is no point in me giving away too much money either because its just a hobby and means to capture my own songs so I can hear what they sound like. I sometimes recorded for friends too so I would like better hardware than I have now. just cant afford it on hobby basis. How does the headphones you use do in a mixing situation. I would be happy to save the grand for some good headphones rather than geting high end headphones to start with. The monitors i have to use now are some cheap pa systems ment to be used in stores and for background music. they are good enough to record with but not to actually do some serius work. its a pair of hq power. roundspeakers. I plan to use them for speakers for the keyboards later on.

Hej cmay I live in Denmark

  • Mundeling
  • 06/24/07
  • Sat, 01/09/2010 - 20:32
Hej cmay I live in Denmark to, and yes, it is a bit more ekspensive here compared to the rest of Eu. I can only say that i myself saved money for a long time, and bourght a pair of Adam monitors ( P33 20000kr. at that time) wich is the best investment i have ever done. It is the best monitor i have head at prices under 100.000 kr. Adam make some smaller monitors wich also sound very clear and linear to me. If it is possible for you, go and listen to them in a musik store, i think the prices starts at 4 or 5.000 kr. and you get far more studio monitor than with the Behringer. Headphones i use Grado Labs SR 80 wich is ok, and i use them a lot when the rest of the house has gone to bed. They are not ekspensive (around 1000 kr.) but sound very good. Sorry for the bad english hope you understand Mundeling

thanks.

  • cmay
  • 10/15/09
  • Sat, 01/09/2010 - 14:11
I have low budget. I dont know exactly much prices are different in other countries. to give an idea of what prices are I spend 6000 DK kr for my gibson sg classic. I spend 6000 kr on my fostex fd8 and 2000 kr on my fostex mr8hd. A couple of Behringer B2031A Truth cost 3500 kr and this is around the price I can afford for some really good monitors. The headphones will cost around 2000 kr I would think. I been seaching on JBL speakers but I cant find the ones I am looking for anywhere. not new or secondhand. I am not sure what prices are for those. To compare prices in Denmark a new stock fender is arond 10.000 kr and a new gibson les paul is around 18.000 kr. this is equal to most ordinary factory workes month pay. before tax and bills are paid. my vintage levin nylon string was 1500 kr and a ordinary suzuki folkmaster is around 150 kr. we are exensive with musicial equipment here but computers are cheap. my emu1212m cost only 1300 kr. and the PC was 2000 kr brandnew with 2 gigabytes RAM . which is why I started to use computers for audio recording because it gives more audio tracks than I could ever afford on hardware units and it is cheap to build the basis but can be upgraded with some really expensive studio hardware later when I can afford it.

Budget

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Sat, 01/09/2010 - 12:52
You will have to give us some guidance on what your budget is, so I can adjust my advice accordingly...