Hammerfall dies (?) ardour-jack continues.

  • david-0
Posted: Tue, 12/18/2007 - 23:03
Since moving to 64studio i have had consistent loss of Hammerfall while recording/playingback. this can happen if i change the view -zoom , or make other changes while playing back. Sometimes for no reason at all. Ardour/jack continues recording, and doesn't lose patchbay connections. Just no audio in or out of the soundcard. i have an Acer Aspire t130 with 521 ram. RME Hammerfall HDSP9652 There don't seem to be a huge ammount of xruns. Anyone reckon this'd stop if i got like 2G ram? I have changed the firmware as directed for the 'linux friendly' firmware version. When everything is working, it sounds awesome! Oh ya- anyone have trouble with the HDSPMixer crashing? I CANNOT run it with my ADAT unit switched on. I run it to open up the channels on the Hammerfall, then switch it off before i turn on the Focusrite OctopreLE. Works fine after that except for the loss of audio. Too bad about that mixer chashing things, but i can live with that. any ideas smart people? dav=-0

Remember, hdparm is for IDE

  • picothinker
  • 08/22/07
  • Thu, 03/27/2008 - 13:16
I think there are only a few parameters that work for SATA. it puzzled me for a long time.

Difference-

  • david-0
  • 09/17/07
  • Mon, 03/24/2008 - 00:18
Hey Porisija, Here is the root terminal output- how well do you think i did improving the tuning? david@64studio:~$ su Password: 64studio:/home/david# synaptic 64studio:/home/david# /etc/init.d/hdparm stop 64studio:/home/david# gedit /etc/default/hdparm 64studio:/home/david# /etc/init.d/hdparm start Setting parameters of disc: (none). 64studio:/home/david# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing cached reads: 1260 MB in 2.00 seconds = 629.26 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 136 MB in 3.04 seconds = 44.81 MB/sec 64studio:/home/david# /etc/init.d/hdparm stop 64studio:/home/david# gedit /etc/default/hdparm 64studio:/home/david# hdparm -Tt /dev/hda /dev/hda: Timing cached reads: 1258 MB in 2.00 seconds = 628.56 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 136 MB in 3.04 seconds = 44.79 MB/sec 64studio:/home/david# i can't see as this is helping- am i wrong?

my system does this..

  • porisija
  • 09/29/07
  • Mon, 03/24/2008 - 16:26
I gave the command hdparm -Tt /dev/hda on my system and the result was: /dev/hda: Timing cached reads: 384 MB in 2.01 seconds = 191.34 MB/sec Timing buffered disk reads: 188 MB in 3.01 seconds = 62.48 MB/sec You seem to have a larger and faster cache memory, but for some reason the disk is a tad slow. My system is a 1,2GHz Duron system, some 5-6 years old - the hard disk is of course newer- with a cheapo Asrock motherboard. Not a performer.. Try giving new values to hdparm on the command line (like -m32) and check whether there is any change. Hard disks are all different from one another, so a little testing is required - while consulting man hdparm.. But what has gone well so far is that your disks are functioning ok, no harm done so far.

I agree

  • ttoine
  • 11/15/07
  • Sun, 03/23/2008 - 21:10
Yes, I agree with Quentin. As a non professional musician it appends some time to me to record in professional studios (not abbey road, of course...) Due to the job of some friends (musicians, sound engineers) I have the possibility to listen a lot of sound systems, monitors, hifi, headphones, etc... I do own some good stuff too. Mastering studios today ask for 24bits 96khz sound files, but if you try to hear the difference between that and a good 16/44,1khz, on any good hearing system, you won't notice the difference. It is often better to have a very good A/D converter at 24/48 than a standard or bad 24/192. Just think why some people prefer a Rosetta for their Pro-tools... And why, so, oversampling quality ? Because for a "all digital" recording and mixing studio, it allows to transform the sound, use a lot of effects, processes, etc.., and when you export to Audio CD quality you still have a very good sound. Try to work at 16/44,1, use a lot of digital effects, and listen, you will loose in quality. So when recording mixing, just think about Nyquest frequency rule (thanks Quentin for the name). If your mix is not a huge process on the sound, a good 24/48 is really good (most of all, the bits defintion is more important than the sample rate). And it is why if you make good "sound capture", you don't need a lot of process and so a lot of studios still works in 24/48, the standard ADAT quality. The better the audio converter is, the less the definition of sound is necessary, it all about dynamics and sound quality. Toine

MP3 frequency range...

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Sun, 03/23/2008 - 20:08
Check this out! http://www.geocities.com/cfr707/mp3.htm Cheers,

window manager

  • david-0
  • 09/17/07
  • Sat, 03/22/2008 - 01:03
OH - and by the way, i found After Step in the repository, and tho i have like 10 other window managers, this is the one i always use by default. IT's so light, cooperates with Gnome and KDE and GTK+ well, and the pager and desktop management is so much fun. My friends freak when they see my studio. Coming from a windoze or mac environment they're surprised by it anyway. Gnome and Enlightenment are fine for other stuff, but for realtime audio work it's AfterStep all the way. I remember being in college in about 1989 and my multimedia instructor showed us the 'NEXT' computer. I'd never loved a computer before then, and ever since i've wanted the NextStep style desktop - and NOW I HAVE IT!! too much fun... for a nerd. OH ya- I am shopping for RAM... i have a 2G limit with the motherboard. Gotta decide if I ought to build a new box, or spruce up the one i've got. I have to run Ardour a bit and see if the dropout still happens... It did drop out yesterday after about half an hour of playing a fairly small session.

Drop outs

  • david-0
  • 09/17/07
  • Fri, 03/21/2008 - 14:00
I've edited this /etc/default/hdparm with these lines: harddisks="/dev/hda" hdparm_opts="-c1 -d1 -m16" as recommended. What do i do with hdparm now? this is new turf for me! dav=-0

Hdparm usage

  • porisija
  • 09/29/07
  • Sun, 03/23/2008 - 17:06
A normal setting for the hard drives in a Linux "plays it safe" with disk throughput. I strongly recommend paddling through man hdparm | less because it contains very good advices about what you can do with hdparm and what the risks are. Hdparm is also a tool for testing your drives.It works like this: hdparm -Tt /dev/hda (if you have IDE drives) or hdparm -Tt /dev/sda (SCSI drives) Test it out: log in as root at a virtual terminal (ctrl+alt+F1) and issue the command: /etc/init.d/hdparm stop comment out the performance improving settings in /etc/default/hdparm in your favorite editor and give the command: /etc/init.d/hdparm start Now test your hard disk drive(s): hdparm -Tt /dev/hda Hdparm gives a rate of how efficient your hard drive is working. Now stop hdparm again: /etc/init.d/hdparm stop and restore your /etc/default/hdparm settings. Once again, start hdparm.. ..and check your HD drive throughput: hdparm -Tt /dev/hda Any difference? Considering your soundcard has a native 96KHz sample frequency, which doubles (at least) the file sizes when compared to a "normal" 44,1KHz sample frequency, why waste audio quality by keeping the hard drive a bottleneck? In time you will notice that "there is a difference" in sample frequencies. The reason that audio is still hanging in a "obsolete" sample frequency is due to the fact that some 15-20 years ago 44.1KHz/16 bit was considered adequate for quality CD audio (..by the company PHILIPS). Modern computers are capable of a lot more than that. Good luck.

"obsolete"?

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Sun, 03/23/2008 - 20:04
Quote: > The reason that audio is still hanging in a "obsolete" sample frequency is due to the fact that some 15-20 years ago 44.1KHz/16 bit was considered adequate for quality CD audio (..by the company PHILIPS). < Philips did a little study: What can people hear. In the study they found that the people with the best hearing could hear frequencies up to 18000Hz. The best hearing in children approximates 20000hz. The engineers then decided to up the frequency to 20050Hz. Because of the Nyquest frequency rule, the sampling rate came to 44100Hz. Most adults lose the higher frequency hearing from the age of 20 (or earlier depending on you music taste) We are in a DATA hungry society. More Mega pixels for your camera, higher sample rates, etc. At the same time more and more people are turning to compressed media, such as MP3, that has psychoacoustic filtering setting in at only 15kHz. So, it's your choice. You can record at 196kHz. You can fill up your drives. but before you do that, think about the target of your music. Think iPod, HiFi with CD/MP3 player, Radio. Think about the bandwidth of these devices. My set of monitor speakers in my auditioning room has a frequency range of 35Hz to 20kHz. my 2c

Hammerfall dropout

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Thu, 03/20/2008 - 07:23
Dav=-0, Did you manage to fix the drop-out yet? I just thought about something that happened to me way back in the beginning... My on board nvidia card did not respect my real time kernel timing, and every time you change zoom or move a window you would get sluggish video response and some audio drop-out. Sometimes even a hard click, all with no xruns whatsoever. Solved it by fitting a real PCIe nvidia card in my system, a cheap GeForce 6600, disabling the onboard device, and this made all the difference. I wish they would STOP fitting these stoooopid on-board graphics adapters on performance motherboards, capable of hosting Athlon x2 CPU's or similar. I hope this sheds some light! PS: I am running on 2GB at the moment... so much better - I tore the extra 1GB out of above mentioned winXP system, and it was the exact same type as my original ones! Bonus.

hdparm

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Thu, 03/20/2008 - 07:06
Tuning your hard drive performance. If you are pushing the envelope, and your drives becomes the bottleneck, I think this might be your next step. Otherwise you would have to go for a striped raid array filled with SCSI raptor drives... ok, that may be a little extreme (and noisy) ;-) As I wrote in another thread, (http://www.64studio.com/node/87) unless you want to make a DVD-A disk (which I don't see in our stores btw) you don't need to record 96kHz at all. The fact that you device is capable tell us a lot about the *Quality* of the 44100 conversion that you'll get. Much like fitting "V" rated tires on your car in a country that allows only 120km/h on the roads anyway. You get a safer, tighter ride. I only use 44100 or 48000, given the target of the audio. For CD or MP3/Ogg I use 44100 only, because in these formats you cannot hear the difference, as the medium cannot carry the signal. Rather be sure to use the 24bit depth of your card, as this affects your channel fidelity, and can save a soft take by supplying the extra 24dB you might need... To sell you services, do tell the customer about the grand features, but use the right ones for your productions. my 2c

hdparm

  • ttoine
  • 11/15/07
  • Wed, 03/19/2008 - 18:18
Hey, What is the insterest of using hdparm ? Toine

I second..

  • porisija
  • 09/29/07
  • Tue, 03/18/2008 - 12:39
..that updating your system memory to at least 1 GB RAM could solve your issue - with memory modules at really low prices now, I think it's worth every cent. Even 2 GB won't hurt. When you think of it, your RME card has a native 96 KHz sample frequency which means BIG amounts of data moving in and out of PC. That's why 64Studio has hdparm installed by default - check man hdparm and change the settings by editing the file /etc/default/hdparm with these lines: harddisks="/dev/hda" hdparm_opts="-c1 -d1 -m16" (Reboot or give the command "/etc/init.d/hdparm restart" as root - and not while recording your most valuable recording..)) You're using Gnome, right? Issue the command top in a terminal and look at the "Mem:" line before starting any audio software. You'll see the amount of memory used by your desktop - give or take a few megabytes.. Then fire up your normal workspace software - HDSPMixer etc., keep top running - and look at the same line again. Any difference? Gnome is a memory hog by default with all its services loaded and running. The random errors in hardware that you described could mean a lack of memory. A realtime kernel like the one that 64Studio has sets very high demands on the hardware, which your card fulfills. I have noticed that some consumer grade audio cards simply won't work properly with realtime demands, such as some Terratec cheapos (Aureon PCI 5.1). The audio chipset (cmipci) simply isn't up to the task with realtime where as it will work a normal desktop setup quite well. It your problem were software related it would occur always, not randomly. Of course hardware malfunctions are a totally different issue. A bad motherboard or PSU can easily destroy your expensive sound card.

I second that...

  • Quentin Harley
  • 05/24/07
  • Mon, 03/17/2008 - 20:28
Used to use my (suposedly good) Audigy2 card for listening to music, but the Hammerfall through the ADAT interface directly into my digi mixer is just without comparison...

jack digital gain

  • ttoine
  • 11/15/07
  • Mon, 03/17/2008 - 19:54
The thing is that asio a poor dynamic range. Jack is so far better for digital sum, for listening, etc... With the same settings on my peripherals (big knob, speakers, etc...) it sounds more accurate, more louder, more dynamic, etc... with Linux/jack than with win/asio. That is a thing to keep in mind. Jack send to the sound card a better and higher level digital signal to handle and convert. Toine

security?

  • david-0
  • 09/17/07
  • Sun, 03/16/2008 - 23:07
How does one stop this from happening? i agree, the Hammerfall HDSP9652 is a great interface to use, i bought it with linux in mind. i just had my old cubase rig booted up. i can't stand the user environment, or the sound. mind you, i have never had this thing with the card output dropping in ASIO. I imagie it's a firmware thing that'll be solved or revealed to me eventually.

sound output...

  • ttoine
  • 11/15/07
  • Thu, 01/17/2008 - 23:50
Sometimes I have the problem when the output given by jack to the output of my hdps multiface II. Actually, the cards put itself in security, so you have to restart it... so it may mean restart the system. Do you think it can be the case ? Anyway, I do confirm that RME hdsp soundcards sound very great with linux/alsa/jack, so better than with asio or coreaudio... Toine